Saturday, May 2, 2009

WIN METHOD/WE vs individual stats/me

The first thing the baseball stat frauds bellow about their individual stat guys is, look how great he is, the team isn't winning because everybody else stinks. For stat frauds, it is the me attitude and philosophy. The first thing WIN METHOD followers ask, is how did we do. For WIN METHOD fans, it is the accomplishment of the team with contributions by all players that matters and leads to winning games.
For a player to get and RBI, he either hits a HR or scores a team mate in any of a variety of ways. For a player to score a run, he gets on base in any of a variety of ways, and then scores when a team mate does something to allow him to score. A pitchers primary objective is to win the game, if he can't win the game, his next objective is to pass the baton to a team mate who then may have that opportunity. A pitcher can not win a game in any way however, unless his team mates get on base and score runs. Baseball is a totally interdependent game where the success of the team, which is the sole objective of the game, coincides with how almost everyone performs conectively in every game. Get on base, score a run because team mates move you along and score you, score a team mate because they got on and you can move them along. Get a hold or a save because your team mates put you in that position. Baseball in never me as the stat frauds would lead you to believe, but a game of we, exactly what the WIN METHOD lives by.
You all know the Arod history of failure at the team level (we), but glory by the stat frauds at the (me) level. Just a bit of information for everyone, Ramiro Pena in just a few short games has gotten major run producing hits in the late innings of two close games that helped his team win, something Arod has not been able to do in his career with the YANKEES.
WE, WE, WE, over me, me, me.

174 comments:

Jimmy Helton said...

This is why I keep coming back. Great blog entry. If everyone can live their life like the WIN METHOD creed, the world would be great. Yes it is WE over me. In everything. I send the WIN METHOD link to everyone I know.

Harold Jenkins said...

Good stuff WIN METHOD, and great win last night. Lets make it five today.

johnny said...

that is what the stat people keep missing, it is when someone gets a hit over how many hits they get. same for rbis, it is when you get an rbi over how many you get.

Walter O said...

That's not fair to the stat frauds. Why can't the individual players who do not help their team win, be the best players in the game, he said sarcastically. LOL

Paul Patterson said...

There's a lot to dislike about A-Rod. However, if you look back at Yankee box scores since 2004, there have in fact been plenty of times he's gotten hits when it counted, either starting, continuing, or finishing game-winning rallies.

Sweeping generalizations are not a good thing.

bigbadwolf said...

Guys and gals, the single most important thing to remember about the WIN METHOD and to counterpoint the arguments of the stat frauds is..the game of baseball is played for the success of the team and not the success of any individual players. And no, just because a player hits 40 HRs with 120 RBIs does not mean he has helped his team, because, it is when you get the hits, HRs and RBIs as opposed to how many you get.

WIN METHOD said...

Paul, Arod has never accomplished what Pena has accomplished in the past two games. Arod is a player with great ability, but he is not a WIN METHOD player and is no asset to his team. That has been factually proven with W/L records of teams he has played for and left and teams he has then gone to.

Jamile Jackson said...

Paul, if it was the last of the 9th, 2 out and the bases loaded, down by 1 run and it meant the playoffs or not. The last Yankee I would want at the plate would be Arod.

Paul Patterson said...

Here is something to consider. From 2004 to 2008, the Yankees are 136-52 (.723) when Rodriguez hits one or more homers in a game. The team's overall record for these five years is 476-334 (.588).

No doubt a fair number of these homers were put up when the game was well in hand. That would be the next thing to check. But I think it's also fair to say that when his power production is on, he's making a big contribution to team wins.

Harold Jenkins said...

The streak is over, the team will just have to start a new one. 3 of 4 is what is needed. 2-2 won't cut it.

WIN METHOD said...

Paul, do you realize that baseball is a team game. Every member of the team succeeds or fails as a unit. But you go right to the wasteland of individual stats. Do you realize Arod had arguably three of his best years with the Rangers and he helped lead them to three of their worst seasons in recent years. Factually, do you realize that in the three years before Arod went to the Rangers they averaged 84 wins each year. And the three years after Arod the Rangers averaged 83 wins each year. Oh mercy me, the three years with Arod the Rangers averaged 72 wins per year. throw in another fact, the YANKEE win total has decreased each year since the arrival of Arod.

Dean Bilosi said...

paul....don't you understand that the team wins and loses based on the entire contributions of everyone on the team. What WIN METHOD is trying to illustrate to you is that no single player makes any difference to a team, particularly in making it better. But an individual can make a team worse. Sounds strange, but it's true.

bigbadwolf said...

Paul..The WIN METHOD always looks at a teams performance and credits or faults every player on a team. I find it interesting that before and after Arod it is the fact the team did better and won more, but with Arod the team did worse despite Arods individual heroics. The point being Arod doesn't make one iota of a difference and does not help a team over the season. This has happened in Seattle, Texas, and now New York. Arod emits negativity and his game is self serving.

Jamile Jackson said...

What you are missing Paul is exactly what WIN METHOD stated in the blog. You mention Arods individual stats and say how great they are, then bring up the teams record and blame everyone else for the failures. It is every ones failure when the team fails. It makes no difference what one players individual stats are, they do not help the team. Factually, teams do better without Arod than with him.

Teena, Bronx said...

I'm looking out the window and right now I do not think there will be a game today at the Stadium because it is rainy pretty hard and the forecast is not good.

Paul Patterson said...

It's the other way around, gang. I'm saying the record is shared across the team, while you are scapegoating one high-profile individual and ignoring the other reasons for change. I won't overlook club chemistry as a possible reason, but I won't say it's the only one.

When Rodriguez left Seattle, they didn't miss his offense (it actually picked up a bit) -- but their pitching improved enormously in 2001 and was still better in 2002.

When Rodriguez left Texas, again, they didn't miss his offense. Looking back at what I posted before, I think the Rangers may have depended too much on him and unbalanced their lineup. However, their pitching also improved markedly after he left.

The 2004 Yankees were a fine example of scoring when it counts. They won 101 games, more than you'd expect from their scored/allowed totals. Otherwise there's been a pretty consistent trend. Last year was somewhat less successful, in my opinion, because the offense wasn't as potent as usual despite pitching that was actually improved overall.

Look beneath the surface. What's there tells you a lot.

bigbadwolf said...

Paul...what you see is what you get, no excuses, no cover ups, no stat fraud convolutions. Arod plays for you, you lose at a higher rate than when he doesn't play for you. Wins and losses don't ever lie, and never hide or mask the facts.

Erica Nuyens said...

Drats, the game is rained out. good call Teena.

Vincent Gandozzi said...

I think Paul ignored all the things the other players do for their team. The stat frauds always defend the individual stat guy and blames everyone else. If a individual stat guy is really that great and makes that much of a difference, he should increase each teams chance of winning who he plays for. When the stat guy goes to several teams and the win less and the team he leaves win more, that tells the story. It ain't the other guys, it is everyone on the team/

Paul Patterson said...

"When the stat guy goes to several teams and they win less and the team he leaves win more, that tells the story."

I'll give it one more try. My point is that this is *not* the whole story. Look at the whole teams before and after Rodriguez. There were and are other factors. I sent WM some other info, which I hope he will post.

I'd like to see the philosophy of this blog applied consistently.

WIN METHOD said...

You are right Paul, it is not the whole story, but it is the single biggest piece. Particularly when it repeats itself time after time, both in a positive and negative way for each team he left and went to. The stat frauds use a piece of garbage they call 'replacement value'. They rate each player on how much he will add or take away from a team. We don't seem to hear that to much with Arod.

Teena, Bronx said...

It is raining now, but the forecast is to be able to get the game in tonight, and Hughes is slared to pitch.

Mike said...

Yankees winning percentage with Alex Rodriguez in the lineup: .596 (96 wins over a full season).

Yankees winning percentage without Alex Rodriguez in the lineup: .486 (79 wins over a full season).

I'm sorry, but you guys only discredit yourself when you ignore things like this (as well as to say things like Ramiro Pena has already done more than Alex Rodriguez has for the Yankees). You also contradict yourselves and engage in hypocrisy when you tout baseball as a team sport (with which I completely agree), and then go out of your way to blame the failures of a team on just one player (Alex Rodriguez in this case). Do you not see how those views aren't compatible, how it's wholly inconsistent to tout 25 men and then blame just one, ignoring all other factors? If you're not going to apply your "method" objectively, it's hard to give it any credence.

Also, please note that I did not use a single statistic in my post other than the only one you guys appreciate - wins. Somehow, I'm sure you'll label me a "stat fraud" and spew some other derision my way, simply because I dared to question your method. It's amazing how this blog goes out of its way to suppress intelligent discussion and disagreement, it's like Jonestown (though hopefully without the mass suicides).

WIN METHOD said...

Mike...do you know how foolish you sound when you nit pick a few select games when a player is playing or not. I think it is far and away more realistic, logical, and common sense to look at what happens to the team over the entire season when Arod is on the team or not. FACT ONE:98-00 Seattle with Arod won 82 games/year. Arod leaves Seattle and 01-03 Seattle wins 101 games/year. FACT TWO:98-00 Rangers without Arod win 85 games/year. In 01-03 with Arod Texas wins 72 games/year. 04-06 Arod leaves Texas and what happens, Texas wins 83 games/year. FACT THREE:01-03 YANKEES win 100 games/year with no Arod. 04-06 YANKEES win 98 games/year with Arod, then 94 games in games in 07, then 89 in 08. No nit picking here, three teams season after season of three different teams winning less with Arod and winning more without Arod.
Mike, your vain attempt to nit pick situations to deceive fans tell all everyone needs to know about you and how stat frauds cloud the facts and mislead fans. The facts are as I posted, and any fan can look them up. No nit picking by the WIN METHOD. A decade and three separate teams of Arod hurting teams he plays for.

Mike said...

And Win Method, do you realize how contradictory and hypocritical you sound, as well as oblivious to little things called facts and reality, when you pin an entire team's success or failures on one man? You ignore all other factors except Alex Rodriguez - is one man really that powerful? Your own opening posts seems to suggest not when you say it's a team game. Do you not see your contradiction and hypocrisy? The only person here who seems to be playing the "blame game" is you.

If only I could give you a nickel so you could buy a clue...

Dennis G said...

Mike..WIN METHOD buried you. You cherry pick games that suit your agenda. WIN METHOD uses a decade of games from several teams. The evidence is conclusive, Arod doesn't help teams he plays for,

bigbadwolf said...

If you have totally read the entire blog from start to finish, I think you will see that the WIN METHOD credits everyone on a team for the teams success by what role they play in that success. The WIN METHOD also holds all players on a team responsible for the failure of a team, also by what role the player holds for that team. A starting position player, and at most that would be any of eight players who start everyday hold the most responsibility or get the most credit, on each team. Arod having the biggest role on each team he plays for, takes on the most responsibility.
Mike, I hate to rattle your cage, but WIN METHOD used nothing but season long facts in his post, while you manipulated a scenario to fit your need.

Mike said...

No Dennis, Win Method talks in abstractions, ignoring actual facts and reality. It's clear he doesn't apply the Win Method impartially, but bends it to suit his preconceptions about Alex Rodriguez. In doing so, he only looks hypocritical and undermines any credibility the Win Method could have as an objective system. But if you want facts, here are some for you (and I know logic can be difficult for some to internalize here, but please try to stay with me):

1) Explain to me how the 2000 Alex Rodriguez-led Mariners got as close to the World Series as the organization ever has? This coming after the organization lost Ken Griffey Jr and Randy Johnson and was in rebuilding mode. The 2000 Alex Rodriguez-led Mariners actually improved by 12 wins and came 2 wins away from the World Series (and btw, Alex Rodriguez was phenomenal in the ALCS).

2) The Win Method may have a leg to stand on if the 2001 Mariners were exactly the same team as the 2000 with the exception of Alex Rodriguez's departure, but the team was extremely different, notably the additions of Ichiro Suzuki and Bret Boone, plus the emergence of Carlos Guillen and Mike Cameron, not to mention a reshaped bullpen that had one of the best seasons ever for a bullpen that year. In sum, it's almost comparing apples to oranges and it is extremely ignorant and hypocritical to say that the departure of just one player explains everything.

3) Tell me how well the Mariners have played since Alex Rodriguez left? The Mariners made the postseason 3 out of 6 years Alex Rodriguez was with the Mariners, or 50% of his seasons. The Mariners have made just 1 postseason appearance in the 9 seasons since Alex Rodriguez left, or just over 11% of the time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but getting to the postseason 50% of the time seems to be a major step up from 11% of the time, no? The Win Method's inability to acknowledge a fact such as this reveals how biased and flawed it is.

4) The Rangers actually improved by a modest 2 wins in Rodriguez's first year there, but that team had a ton of problems well-beyond Alex Rodriguez, namely spending a ton on a number of aging veterans, and having little pitching. As the opening post here seems to suggest, it's a team game, and the Rangers certainly struggled as a team, but to blame Alex Rodriguez on everything again reveals a huge hypocrisy in the Win Method that discredits it.

I'm sorry, but this Win Method system is extremely flawed, hypocritical, ignorant, and biased. You all can delude yourselves otherwise and ignoring whatever facts are inconvenient to your dogma, but you'll continue to live in a lonely, frustrated world, seeking to gain a credibility that will forever elude you.

bigbadwolf said...

Mike...everything you claim about the WIN METHOD and its fans is your opinion. I for one, and more than likely almost all WIN METHOD believe the same about you. Again, you blame everyone else, hand pick parts of seasons and ignore the over whelming decade long facts regarding Arod. You seem to blame every move a team makes, and all the other players for a decade. Do you realize just how foolish you sound. Then to compound your ingenuousness you make false claims about the WIN METHOD. Sad, very sad.

johnsondc said...

Mike, it is obvious you have a different opinion than WIN METHOD fans. You are wasting your time here, because you are not able to pull the wool over the eyes of WIN METHOD baseball savvy fans. You probably have or will have better luck on the baseball forums.

Erica Nuyens said...

I find it astounding how one of the most misguided, characterless, self serving MLB players can be lauded by anyone, after all the embarrassment, disgrace, and bad publicity that player has brought to his family, team mates, team and himself. To put it mildly, Arod sucks.

Peter Bauer said...

Erica, you are right on. arod is all about me and cripples teams he plays for. Any team seeking success with arod on its roster, has to play around and ignore him. It takes many quality players playing their hearts out to accomplish this.
WIN METHOD = WE
stat frauds = me

Mike said...

bigbadwolf, we do have a difference in opinion, but one major difference is that I actually pointed to actual facts, instead of tailored-abstractions. I also haven't levied blame on anyone, unlike Win Method here who seems to isolate one player as the reason for everything, despite actual facts to the contrary. The only blame going around is coming from you and your cohorts, and in there lies the contradiction and hypocrisy that completely discredits this method.

I'll leave you all now though, as your right, this place and it's blind dogma isn't for me.

Carlos Gonzales said...

The most interesting part of all this, is the fact that arod has never been able to do with the Yankees, what Ramiro Pena has done in those two consecutive games with big time clutch game determining hits. Plus Pena is a better fielder and not a sieve at third base.

Mike said...

Ugh, Carlos - it's hyperbolic comments like yours which completely discredit the Win Method. Off the top of my head:

1) Alex Rodriguez doubles off Kyle Lohse, then steals third, and scores the winning run in the 11th inning to win the 2004 ALDS for the Yankees against the Twins.

2) Alex Rodriguez hit a walkoff Grand Slam against the Orioles in '07.

3) Alex Rodriguez hit a walkoff 3-run homerun against the Indians in '07.

4) Alex Rodriguez hit the gamewinning homerun against Jonathan Papelbon against the Red Sox in '08.

So that's four moments right there where Alex Rodriguez won a game for the Yankees at a most crucial moment. It may not be much over 5 years (though there are more), but it easily dispels the ridiculous comment that somehow Ramiro Pena has done more.

Again, if you guys want any credibility, at least be fair in applying your method.

bigbadwolf said...

Mike..you picked out selected facts of innuendo and deceit, while WM posted season long irrefutable facts.
Rigth, you did not blame anyone, but you try to credit one of the most team destroying players in the game. What you disingenuously try to discredit is the WIN METHOD which has been the most successful tool in team building for the past 15 or so years. The WIN METHOD has been responsible for the team with most consistent success in baseball, playoffs, pennants, and WS titles in the past 15 years.

Carlos Gonzales said...

Mike, my post said two consecutive games.

johnsondc said...

Mike, Mike, Mike...there is no doubt by anyone here that Arod has had many game winning hits over his career, as have many hundreds upon hundreds of players. The difference bein, as has been proven, over a season, Arod does not help the team he plays for, but when he leaves a team, they do better.

Ken V said...

I love when a stat fraud comes here and tries to convince people who know baseball that they are the ones who don't know what they are talking about. Fans, remember, frauds deceive. To be the best, you must win.

johnny said...

no matter what mike says or thinks, this is the best baseball site on the internet. no bs, just winning.

Sam Bucci said...

Fantastic site, intelligent thought process on winning.

Jamile Jackson said...

Hughes is slated to start tonight if there is a game.

Teena, Bronx said...

It is still raining lightly, but the forecast has a big window, so I think the game will go on.

bigbadwolf said...

Thanks for the updates Teena. It is great having someone on location.

johnny said...

Todays another day.

Ben Kleinhorst said...

Joba needs to come up with a big effort tonight, and it would be nice if everyone chipped in.

Bill watson said...

I am predicting a 10 game win streak sometime in May.

Victor Bruno said...

6 straight losses to bostons, SUCKS!

Peter George said...

Interesting blog

evan said...

I just want a few wins built into a little streak that extends into a large streak, Please.

Bill Horton said...

Nothing is going right. It is supposed to be a win streak not a losing streak. Things have to change.

johnsondc said...

Everthing that can go wrong is going wrong, Bill. It is a long season, and arod is coming back. LOL

Ed Ferguson said...

A win tonight is much needed.

WIN METHOD said...

OK fans, I have been at these past five games. And yes, even I the eternal optimist, am in a down frame of mind. It has been stated that you have to hit bottom before you can start climbing to the top. I think the YANKEES are as close to the bottom and with a couple of losses in Baltimore could be at the bottom. As posted by me two weeks ago, Arod is returning to the team tonight and amazingly this could be positive for the team. Something or someone surely needs to be a positive. I will be at the games in Baltimore and will hopefully be looking for things to pick up and this team getting a kick in the arse and waking up.

Teena, Bronx said...

These games are killing me. I grew up a Yankee fan and live real close to the ballpark(s). I cried watching last nights game.

Jamile Jackson said...

This is a chance for Arod to turn his persona into a positive. If when he comes back, the team gets hit with a stroke of lightning with positive things happening and the team marches to the playoffs, this could be a boost for Arod.

bigbadwolf said...

Who ever thought that Arod could possibly give this team a lift after all the damages he has done to each team he has played for,

Erica Nuyens said...

Hey WIN METHOD, if the Yankees lose all three games to the O's, you will be banned from any more games this season. You are 0-5 on this trip now. UGH! love ya

Giambino said...

Got to give WIN METHOD his props. He posted 2 weeks ago that Afraud would return to the Yankees lineup in Baltimore on May 8. Information before anyone else and right.

Vincent Gandozzi said...

Giambino...you are right on, everything WIN METHOD posts is well in advance of the talking heads and sports writers. This is some blog.

Tony J said...

Back to the task at hand. WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN

Phil J. said...

Was that post predicting A-Rod's return here or on another site? Sorry, I'm having a hard time finding it. Maybe it's in the comments section somewhere?

Frank R said...

Wonder if Tex will do better with Afraud behind him.

bigbadwolf said...

For Phil J... Here is the link if I am not mistaken.
http://www.talk-baseball.com/showthread.php?t=4144
If that does not work. talk-baseball.com NY Yankee thread 'the way back' post 4 by joek, in the middle of the post.

Andrew J. said...

Yes, yes, yes, one pitch, three runs.
Please let it not be an outlier.

Carlos Gonzales said...

One game at a time people. Each one a WIN.

Dennis G said...

Could this be the start of something?
Complete game shutout from CC.

Ian said...

If you can really tell how valuable a player is by how his presence changes the teams record, then about half the players in the majors are hurting their team. Why are you only targeting A-Rod? It's absurd.

I'm starting to think that this whole blog is an elaborate joke, because I honestly can't believe
some of the stuff posted on here is for real.

Case in point:
"...no single player makes any difference to a team, particularly in making it better. But an individual can make a team worse."

No, Dean. This is just stupid. You just completely contradicted yourself. Do you really not see that?

johnsondc said...

Ian,,,Afraud is a Yankee, this is a Yankee/WIN METHOD blog. Have you never heard the sayings, a chain is no stronger than its weakest link. Deans view is not stupid in comparison to yours Ian. All links in a chain the same as all ball players on a team is what gives the chain/team its strenght. The weakest link/non WIN METHOD player is what makes the chain/team weak. Afraud has proven to be that link on several different teams.

johnny said...

hope Hughes keeps the train rolling

Harold Jenkins said...

Last night was horrible. If Hughes is not going to step up, Wang needs to come back strong real soon.

Dean Bilosi said...

Ian, you have no grasp on what baseball is about or how it is played. You just live and dwell on your stupid individual stats, when it is everyone on a team contributing to the teams success. When you can learn and accept that, then you will know the world of baseball, and the WIN METHOD.

Jamile Jackson said...

If all this losing doesn't stop soon, we will get buried and have a very long hill to climb. There just are too many very good teams in our division.

Erica Nuyens said...

A nice win yesterday, a lot of guys helped out. A 2-5 trip doesn't cut it WIN METHOD.

Paul Dixon said...

A day of rest. Regroup and recenter on winning.

Dennis G said...

Nothing earth shattering out of Afaud after 3 games. First pitch big pop fly HR, then nothing. Tex has given us nothing also.

Eric Douglas said...

Can we touch Halladay today. Can we beat him. A win could be a big help in creating momentum.

Connie said...

AJ will have to come up big for us to beat Hallady. He may want to beat his mentor. Could be a real good game.
Do you guys know Jeter was involved in 10 of the 27 outs against the O's on Sunday. 7 assists and 3 putouts. Great range, brilliant flawless play.

Harold Jenkins said...

No question Connie. Jeter is the most consistent and best shortstop in the game. Right now you can't tell he is getting older.

Erica Johnston said...

Not only is Jeter a great player, but his character and integrity are second to no one. Jeter is the face of major league baseball and a role model for humanity.

Giambino said...

Halladay is just to much. You have to almost accept a loss when he pitches against you. back to work tonight.

Jimmy Helton said...

Hope that streak that was mentioned a while back for May starts soon.

Jerry Curcio said...

I will still give it some time, but it looks like Afraud is the same old Afraud. That spells trouble for the team.

bigbadwolf said...

You ain't kidding Jerry.

Giambino said...

nice win with one big inning and a really good game by Andy. need to take the rubber game today.

Hank Beisenet said...

I had heard about this blog and read about it in a magazine. Very interesting stuff. Blogger has inside information and knows baseball. Will keep reading and be informed.

johnsondc said...

Welcome Hank, yes WIN METHOD has the scoop and his baseball outlook is refreshing and makes the stat frauds look like bozos. The game is about winning and winning is the sole purpose of the fans here.

Dan F. said...

A back to back from CC would mean a lot and could get the train into second gear.

Walter O said...

I hope the guys keep hitting like they did last night. Big game from Sabathia. We need wins.

DS said...

Which magazine was that Hank?

bigbadwolf said...

Big time WIN METHOD win last night. Almost the perfect game. Arod looks like the same old Arod. Rest assured he will break out in our next 15-2 win. CC is looking real good.

Vincent Gandozzi said...

Hughes needs to bounce back tonight. If not he may be back to AAA. Wang had a very good start at AAA a couple of days ago. This would be a nice time to get that big streak running.

TJ said...

AzeroRod first game back at the Stadium tonight should get the reception he has earned. Booooooo!

johnny said...

yeh TJ hopefully afraud can give us a little help. i rather have pena at 3b. 3 of 4 from the twinkies would be great. that would make 3 series wins in a row.

Teena, Bronx said...

I will be going to the game tonight. Out in the bleachers.

Frank R said...

I miss the occasional statfraud posting here, making fools of themselves.

Billy Hoffman said...

The WIN METHOD rules, the stat frauds are fools. Winning is not every thing, it is the ONLY thing.

DS said...

Does anyone know what magazine the Win Method appeared in as referred to by Hank above? I tried a Google search and after looking at the first 10 or so pages, the only results with "Win Method" in a baseball context came from this blog.

Carlos Gonzales said...

A good game form Hughes would be great. A big hit form Afraud would be a miracle. Go team.

johnsondc said...

DS..I had heard it was in American Profile some time back. I never saw it.

Vincent Gandozzi said...

Bring us luck Teena. Enjoy the game.

Mike Jorgenson said...

Another fantastic WIN METHOD baseball WIN METHOD win. Just to think the stat fools wanted Melky off the team. Two walkoff game winners so far for Melky this season.

Nick Howard said...

A momentum building win. Keep it going guys.

Vincent Gandozzi said...

You saw a fun game Teena.

Jamile Jackson said...

Nice win. Even Afraud contributed with his walks although he did fail miserably with the bases and one out and got us nothing. If he just stands there and doesn't swing we could be alright.

Teena, Bronx said...

Hey WIN METHOD fans, I'm 2 for 2. What a come back. Jeter starts it with a HR. And then Gardner really lights the fire with an inside the park HR.

WIN METHOD said...

Teena, your record is far better than mine. Yes, it was a great game. Jeters play in the hole getting the force at second, which could have been a DP but for Canos poor relay was fantastic. Jeters HR to get the train moving is what Jeter is all about. Winning and the WIN METHOD. Keep us up to date on your attendance at the games.

Jerry Curcio said...

Joba today. the last two games he has been hit in the first inning, and then he shut the opposition down. See what happens today. Joba has been looking good and is a solid starter.

bonnie m said...

This is the game I want. win this and all you need is 1 of the next 2 for a series win .

Perry Gould said...

I've always been a Yankees fan and this is my first association with this site. I think it is fantastic and loaded with logical sincere ideas.

bigbadwolf said...

Another big WIN METHOD win. Texeireia carrying us through the game into overtime. Then Afraud finally delivering a big hit for another walkoff team win. And another good game from Joba. Choo choo.

Walter O said...

Choo choo. The rotation is starting to give the team consistent quality starts. Keeping the team in the game and giving the bats a chance to win it. Solid team wins. We, no me.

Mike Jorgenson said...

Yes, choo choo. One game at a time. One win at a time. I like the outfield of Damon, Gardner, Melky. Swisher needs to sit awhile.

Anonymous said...

Is it possible to have a win that's not a "Win Method" win, or is every win by the Yankees by default a "Win Method" win?

bigbadwolf said...

Yes, there are many wins that are not WIN METHOD. Those are the ones loved by stat frauds and those who wish to mislead the baseball fan with false ideas. A win by one or two runs has the exact same value to the team as a win by ten, fifteen, or twenty runs. It is the win that counts and is the only thing of importance, not by how much you win by.

Victor Bruno said...

The train is pulling out of the station. Todays engineer is AJ. All aboard, choo choo.

Harold Jenkins said...

Not to be a jinx, which I do not believe in. Could this be our first streak of the season. Choo choo

Billy Hoffman said...

The pieces are coming together. When Posada, Wang, and Bruney get back things could really start looking good.

Ed Ferguson said...

We lost all 5 games to the redsox and are just 2 games behind them. That alone is amazing considering all the injuries we have had.

DS said...

bigbadwolf, you're making a chicken before the egg statement. I completely agree that all that matters ultimately are the wins, but you are seemingly ignoring how the wins are achieved. Wins are the product of evolving games, they are not pre-destined. During an actual game, there is no way to know how many runs a team will need to win and how the team will actually win. This time yesterday (9:45 AM), there was no way to know how the Yankees would win yesterday or if they would even win. There's no way to know if it would be a walkoff homerun, or if they'd blow a 4-run lead in the 9th. Even during the game, there's no way to know what the final outcome will be. Certainly, as the game progresses, you can make educated guesses, but until the final out is recorded, anything can happen. In this vein, scoring runs is a major component of the pursuit of winning and a team should not stop scoring runs just because it already has a big lead, because you never know how many runs you will ultimately need to get that win.

Also, please don't call me a "stat fraud" or otherwise deride simply because I'm trying to have a thoughtful conversation. Thanks.

bigbadwolf said...

DS, you are a stat fraud, because you put the emphasis on how many runs are scored. WIN METHOD followers only care about the win. Winning by 10, 15, 20 runs is meaningless except for you stat frauds and your fantasy leagues. Yes, I want my team to score 10 runs if the opposition is going to score 7,8,9. And I do not want my team to score 10 runs if the opposition is going to score 0,1,2. That is the difference between our beliefs. If and when a 10 run win has more value than a 1 or 2 run win, then I will side with you. When tema score big lopsided wins, that is exactly where all the misleading individual statistics come into play and give casual fans the false impression that a player with great individual stats is more important than the player who wins.

johnsondc said...

DS..I really do not think anyone is suggesting that a team should not stop scoring runs. We are pointing out the meaningless value of scoring countless runs when your pitcher is on and dominating the other team. If I am winning 5-0 at the end of 7 1/2, I do not want my team scoring 4 more runs in the bottom of the 8th. I love losing by 10 runs and winning by just a few. Value for your effort.

DS said...

But bigbadwolf, you're still putting the chicken before the egg. You're looking at the result but completely ignoring the process. You can't know how or if a team will win the game until it actually wins. You take the process for granted and treat winning and losing as pre-ordained. Wins are the end result of an evolving process. If you don't understand how wins were achieved, how can you possibly work towards winning? In particular, right now, how can you possibly know how many runs the Yankees will need to win today's game or if they will even win at all?

I'm not assigning different values to different wins, I agree with you that a win is a win regardless of the score, but you seem to completely ignore how an individual win was produced.

I also asked you to please be civil in having a thoughtful conversation and not revert to name calling. Obviously you're incapable of doing that, which only reflects you're own insecurity, thus only undermining any point you're trying to make. I didn't realize that this was a forum for bitter elementary school children who resort to name calling when they are at a loss for words. Take care everyone.

DS said...

johnsondc, first thanks for your response - I appreciate not being called a "stat fraud" or being otherwise derided and being able to have an actual conversation.

Why wouldn't you want your team to score 4 more runs when up by 5-0? What if the opponent comes back and scores 6 runs in the next inning and wins 6-5? It may be unlikely, but it definitely happens. A run might seem pointless when the game is 5-0 to make it 6-0, but if the other team comes back and scores 5 runs, that extra run suddenly becomes very important. While the game is still ongoing, you just can't know for sure how many runs you will need to actually win the game until it's actually over. You can make an educated guess as the game progresses and certainly feel more confident with a big lead late in the game, but that shouldn't stop a team from scoring more runs if it can. Plus, these guys are paid to play baseball, and I wouldn't want them to stop trying just because they have a big lead.

At the end of the day though, you're right in that a win is a win and a loss is a loss, regardless of the score - I'm just saying that a team won't know if it's done enough to win until the game is actually over, and thus a team shouldn't stop trying to score runs as you never know how many you will ultimately need.

Teena, Bronx said...

It looks like we will be able to get the game in, but there is still a chance of some rain.
DS..you kkep regurgitating more and more runs. As the game does progress, a team actually does get a feel for the game and a ballpark big picture of how many runs you may need. In the end you only need one more run than the other team. Not tem more runs.

bigbadwolf said...

DS...You should wear the title of stat fraud with respect. Stat frauds always try to manipulate stats, theories, views to suit their fantasy game needs. A team at every moment of a game knows it needs just 1 more run than their opponent to earn a win. Do you try to stop scoring. Very likely not unless the score really become ridiculous. The point being, in evaluating players, the stats achieved by a player when his team is winning by a lopsided score are meaningless in his evaluation, but of great importance in the fantasy world. While the things achieved by players in very close games are far more valuable in evaluating that player. There for, total runs for a team is relatively meaningless, because it is only the wins that count.

Gabe Hooks said...

Teen, you sure its not pouring, because we have one coming out of the woodwork.

Erica Nuyens said...

WIN METHOD WIN METHOD, Choo choo, WIN METHOD WIN METHOD, Choo choo. Streak is five. 3 straight walkoffs.

Giambino said...

Wow, the stat frauds must be crying in their pablum. Good game from AJ and the pen held together. Team baseball, no me baseball.

H Lopez said...

Pettitte started the run 5 games back. Now the rotation goes through the second round. Kepp it going. Choo choo.

Willie J said...

Choo choo. Choo, choo. Keep it rolling tomorrow.

Nick Howard said...

Wang had a great 7 innings in AAA. No runs and may be ready to rejoin the team.

Steve said...

Team baseball, everybody contributes to wins. No me stat fraud baseball, leave that to the fools. Choo choo.
Six tonight.

RLA said...

After three hard throwing righties, Pettitte will be a sharp change for the Twin hitters. If he's on his game, we will be in good shape. Choo choo.

Nick Alexos said...

Winning teams are going to have their share of one-run victories and blowouts. Sure, you can say that the one-run victories show "character" and "grit" -- but plenty of successful teams just steamroll the opposition. And if, as this blog states, the win is the only thing that matters, there should be no difference.

Sharon/NC said...

I love coming here. Almost all Yankee supporters, with the occassional stat buffon poppong in. And almost forgot, choo choo.

WIN METHOD said...

You are right Nick. a win is a win, be it by 10 runs or 1 run. The difference being the misleading meaningless stats created by blowouts, for both the winning and losing teams. That is exactly why individual stats are misleading and the people who live by them are very foolish. The best players play together for the success of the team with individual stats being a secondary concern. To judge a players career, one need only to look at how many times the player helped his team to the playoffs, pennants and WS titles.

Mike S said...

I just quit the baseballfever forum. There is nothing but dumb bunnies over there. Whining about bunts and strategy. They would do this, or that. The jerks do not accept the fact that there are professionals making the decisions. The capper was this one idiot crying that he has to cut down on posting because his fiance just dumped him. Smart girl, because he is an idiot. this is the place for Yankee fans. And anyone who understands the game.

bigbadwolf said...

Welcome to the real world Mike. That site is a wasteland. Nothing but Yankee fans here with the occasional loon stopping by.

Teena, Bronx said...

Weather will be crisp and clear for game tonight. Choo choo.

Mike Jorgenson said...

Keep the streak going. It is early in the season, things are looking up, and there are great things ahead for this team. Choo choo.

johnny said...

Choo choo. Choo choo.

johnsondc said...

That's 6 in a row. And yet another WIN METHOD 1 run win. Choo choo.

wendy wienberg said...

four one run wins in a row, wow, cc for seven. choo choo

Victor Bruno said...

Boston and Toronto meet, if we keep rolling, we can gain gorund on both or alot on one. Choo choo

Ed Ferguson said...

CC + choo choo = WIN.

Phil J. said...

Folks: is it a coincidence that Teixeira's awakening has come since the return of one A. Rodriguez?

Erica Nuyens said...

That's seven in the bank. Need a big one from Hughes to get to eight. Redemption for Hughes after being pounded by the O;s in Baltimore.

Bob Behan said...

Streaks are nice, but a run of consistency can be the best. 2 of 3 for about 30 games is a great way to the playoffs. Then maybe 500 ball for 30 games and then back to 2 of 3 for 30 games.

Steve said...

Phil J,,, Only someone who does not know baseball would say one players production is do to another player. One only need to look at the bigger picture and one would factually see that each team Afraud has played for in the past decade did immediately worse over a season than they did before he played for them. On top of that, each team Afraud left, immediately won more games and played better when he left. Coincidence!

Dennis G said...

Ok lets keep the train rolling. Choo choo. All aboard to the division title.

DS said...

That's interesting Steve. I actually heard an interview today with Mark Teixeira and he talked at length about the positive effect on him and the team of having Alex Rodriguez in the lineup. But I guess Mark Teixeira, a guy actually playing the game and batting in front of Alex Rodriguez, obviously knows nothing about baseball. For good measure, Michael Kay, Joel Sherman, and Peter Gammons, all people who make their living following the game, said similar things, as did John Sterling and Mark McCarron on the radio broadcast last night. I guess all these people know nothing about baseball. Kind of makes you wonder why managers for over century have bothered crafting lineups since how where a person bats in the lineup obviously has no effect on anyone else in the lineup.

Oh, and here's a link to a video of Mark Teixeira talking about the positive effect of having Alex Rodriguez in the lineup, enjoy: http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2009/05/video_new_york_yankees_first_b_1.html

DS said...

Steve, as a further comment, you also completely contradict yourself. Do you even realize that? You start off your comment stating that one player's production can't affect another player, but then attribute an entire 25-man team's failures to one player. Do you see your hypocrisy and contradiction? Somehow, I just know you don't. Let the "stat fraud" bashing begin from you or bigbadwolf or another one of your alter egos... It's like the Spanish Inquisition in here.

Phil J. said...

Steve, I'm not eliminating coincidence. Teixeira could be heating up on his own. But I think there's also something to the idea that since Tex has stronger support in the lineup behind him, he has gotten better pitches to see. That's a team element for which A-Rod could deserve credit.

I'm bored with the whole superficial line of thinking about the records of A-Rod's teams before and after him. It's come up here before, and even Win Method himself said there's more to it than just A-Rod. Look again at the pitching in particular for the Mariners and Rangers.

dan glover said...

Wow choo choo eight in a row going for 9 with Joba. the train is rolling. choo choo.

Jamille Jackson said...

I t looks like we have a pair that do not know the difference between winning and losing. But we are winning and the train is moving. Choo choo.

Dean Bilosi said...

Just to throw in my two cents. Bottom of the ninth, losing by one run, bases loaded, one out. the last Yankee I want at the plate is Afraud. To me that is one of the differences between WIN METHOD or not.

Phil J. said...

According to Bill James, the Tex-Rodriguez thing is coincidence. By chance, I was looking at a new book of his, and he says the "lineup effect" has been studied. He calls it a "specious theory based on selective observation."

It'd be nice if everyone could look at two sides of a question.

WIN METHOD said...

There are few players who will throw a team mate under the bus. Tex praising Arod is the proper thing to do. don't you think Tex would have sounded silly saying Arods return meant nothing to him.
The people mentioned are only stating what outwardly appears to be an obvious. The Arod supporters will tout Arods return as the spark that set the YANKEES on a roll. Arods detractors will state that the recent YANKEE good fortunes would have occurred anyway.
I positively believe that all players on a team deserve credit or discredit for what the team achieves over a season, based on their role on their team. In comparing the credit and discredit issue, no one player makes a team great, it is the contribution of all that make a team great. On the other side, yes one player can hurt a team by his presence. All players should be held responsible for a teams poor season, but their are instances of a player hurting his team just by being there. Sad to say Arod is one of those kinds of player.
How can you or anyone be bored with factual decade long evidence. When Arod leaves a team it gets better, when he goes to ateam it gets worse. Decade long evidence is very conclusive.

DS said...

Win Method, please explain how the Mariners making the post-season in 1 out 8 years since Alex Rodriguez left is better than making it in 3 out of 6 years when he was with the team. Also, please explain how Alex Rodriguez affects the pitching on his teams. Then please explain how the Mariners actually had their single-best season ever in terms of playoff success with Alex Rodriguez and after the departures of Ken Griffey Jr and Randy Johnson. The please explain how this is the second year in a row that a struggling Yankee team has suddenly improved appreciably once Alex Rodriguez returned to the lineup. I would love to hear your straightforward answers to these questions, instead of evasion, derision, and fact-manipulation. Is it possible for you respond in a straightforward manner?

Until you are willing to apply your "method" in an objective and consistent matter, instead of bending it as convenient to suit your own biases and ignoring reality and actual FACTS along the way, your "method" will be utterly devoid of viability.

Now which one of your alter egos cares to respond...

DS said...

Win Method, I want to extend my apologies to you for my last post. I know you've been chased away from other forums and that you have sought refuge here, you're own site. I vehemently disagree with your "method" and approach, and find offensive the way you deride anything remotely looking like disagreement, but this is your place and I will respect that and leave you alone. You have every right to enjoy your own site, and I hope you do.

johnsondc said...

DS..many here have been driven away from forums, and if yu can't understand why, that would explain much of what you post and questions you seek answers to.

Hank Beisenet said...

I'd love for the streak to hit double figures. The train is rolling for number nine tonight. Choo choo.

Steve said...

after getting swept four games by the YANKEES, the Twins took it out on the White Sox with a 20-1 win. What a load of meaningless runs to inflate individual stats. If they used some of those stats against the Yankees they at least could have come away with a split. Yet another example of misleading stats compared to the WIN METHOD.

Teena, Bronx said...

Joba may be hurt, Nooooooooooooo

Carlos Gonzales said...

Another nice win. Hope Joba is OK. Choo Choo aka CC can complete a second go around of the rotation with a W tonight. Choo Choo.

johnsondc said...

Bill watson said...

I am predicting a 10 game win streak sometime in May.

May 5, 2009 11:08 AM

Look what Bill Watson posted in early May. Hope you are right and wrong. Ten for sure, but even more would be better.

TJ said...

Carlos...it's AJ pitching tonight.

Don Baird said...

Steve, the idea of redistributing runs from a blowout to a close game is absurd.

Steve said...

Don.. You cannot redistribute runs, but the runs in a 20-1 blowout are meaningless and create inflated meaningless stats for many players. While at the same time inflating the individual pitching stats of the losing team. all meaningless. If you cannot accept that a hit or two by the same players who bloated their stats when the game wasn't on the line, could have meant a couple more wins to their team if the hits were delivered in crucial situation in a close well played game. This is something stat frauds cannot live with and despise.

johnsondc said...

don...your failure to comprehend simple logic is what is absurd. The WIN METHOD states that it is far more important WHEN hits and RBIs are attained compared to how many are attained. Steve is absolutely correct. A couple of those hits in the 20-1 blowout would have helped the team far more if they occurred WHEN the team needed them, in the close one games.

Don Baird said...

Stunning insights with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, gentlemen.

johnsondc said...

Everything in baseball is hindsight. The only thing that is not is the evaluation and selection of players for the future. Sorry to inform you Don, but since the inception of the WIN METHOD, the YANKEES have had more success in MLB than any other organization, both on the field and in business.

Deb F said...

The WE over me is so right on.